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May 29, 2008

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Sadly we've allowed the last few generation to, errrr.... degenerate in overall respect. We've produced a generation of teens and 20 somethings whom want instant gratification gained by any means that makes them feel good.
Life is not a XBox game where rsults are just a "click" away.

While I agree with Big Daddy, I also wonder what a difference it would have made if the older (and supposedly wiser) hunter would have just either gone on to his back up spot (he is on public land after all) or just told the young man that he was in his stand, but that to go ahead, hunt it and "good luck".
The kid would have had a whole different story to tell about his hunt and a whole different experience in the woods. As it stands, he will probably join the ranks of those that quit hunting due to all of the BS like this.

+1....Really? Are you sure you want to make such a brash generalization? For you to say that I "want instant gratification gained by any means that just makes me feel good....honestly makes me mad. Times change and with that so do people. Just because we didn't have to walk 5 miles to school in knee deep snow, both ways, like my dad always said, doesn't make us any less of a generation. You don't see us making brash generalization about the 40+(or however old you are) age group do you? Just because you have may have failed at parenting, and you're describing your kids or some kids you know, doesn't mean that others did. But it's great to know that you think we are degenerating...this blog has been a rallying cry for hunters and outdoorsmen alike, but it goes to show how one bad apple can ruin the whole bunch, I am not agreeing with what the young hunter did, but I am not not going to call him out and put him down for what he did. We have all made mistakes while hunting before and I am sure that young man learned his lesson.

I think you make a good point about the young hunters, not kids but the younger generation--indeed, the kid here might not have been taught not to get into another's stand. I think this argument brings up a bigger issue--30 plus years ago we were taught certain rules of the woods and hunting by our dads, but today's hunters are not taught the same--less parents are serious hunters and a lot of teens and 20 somethings are having to learn a lot on their own, I think this is something that the hunt industry needs to realize and take action on--education for all new hunters, not just 12 and under. I know we have a lot of HS and college kids on the blog and I hope and try to teach them not only some tactics, but some etchics and rights/wrongs of the woods that I have exp. with after 30 plus years.

Concerned Outdoorsman, I think you're missing the point. Obviously nobody on this blog is going to say that the outraged hunter was right or even that the young hunter "deserved" what happened to him. The lesson to be learned by the young man is that you never know who you might run into in the woods these days. To climb into a stand, even on public land, that you know is not yours is putting yourself in a situation that, at the very least makes the young hunter look lazy. Worst case senario, the kid could've gotten killed over it. Why risk it?

I think your statement about not judging the young hunter or calling him out even though you don't agree with what he did is the problem alot of us older (I'm 38 so I guess I'm older too) hunters see with younger people. I was raised to show respect for others property. This is true even if the owner of that property is doing something I don't consider the right thing to do (like leaving your stand up public property like you own the land).

come on now...you walk thru the woods see a treestand that someone else built and scurry up it, just cause it's vacant...learn respect and sportsmanship! That other hunter built that stand based on pre season scouting that he was willing to put the time in to do. To claim "I'm here first and it's public property" is both unsporting and childish.
Had it been a portable stand would it had made any difference? Would it get stolen? Or worse yet the pins pulled from it? Hardly the act of a mature sportsman of any age I'd say.

Both people are @ fault. The youngster shouldn't have climbed into someone's stand. You don't hunt anyone's stand without permission. Besides the ownership issues the stand could have been dangerously built and thus posed a safety issue.

The older guy shouldn't have totally lost his cool and look where it got him. But, why would you build a permanent stand on public ground to begin with? That's what climbers are for. Did this genius figure no one would ever hunt "his" stand?

Respect for others property and just manners in general seem to be lacking among all generations today. It's all about "me" getting mine and to hell with everyone else.

This story just illustrates that point from both perspectives.

Jim

Public property is exactly that, public property. Cutting a tree down, to hurt or kill the person on public property is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The person in the tree did nothing wrong legally. Cutting the tree was illegal as well as threatening the boy in the stand. Sounds to me the guy on the ground is lucky the boy didn't esculate the deal and protect him self. Get off the kids.... if they don't hunt the sport dies. Before you comment. Put a 85 year old man in the stand on public property and you would hang the guy on the ground from the nearest tree.

I think that there is a true lesson here and some have eluded to it. Yes, it would be wrong to go into a stand that's not yours on public land, but like others have said, the young hunter might not have known any better. That is where the "older" and "wiser" hunter, as stated earlier, should have talked to him about it, instead of taking the actions he did. How are young hunters supposed to learn from their elders, if they behave like that. Sure I would be upset, but honestly, what grounds did the guy have? Sure, he built it, put the time in...but who's to say it was really his? What if he was just using that stand and claimed it was his because he has been hunting out of it? There are many ways to look at this and lots of different solutions.
And yes, I respect others property, just as I would want them to respect mine. But when you hunt public land, there is a fine line to be treaded there and this story illustrates it perfectly. Because Hunter A, has just as many rights as Hunter B. But unless you some some Identification on the stand and can prove it's yours, who's to say it really is? I have seen this occur on public land before. My dad and I put up a stand and found a guy sitting in it. Guy got all upset and outraged, then my dad showed him his ID and then the writing on the bottom of the stand. He then walked out of the woods.

There are so many things wrong here, that both of these Dumba$$es share the blame.

1)In most states it is ILLEGAL to erect a permanent stand on publicly owned land.
i)also illegal to occupy said stand.

2) In EVERY state it is wrong to occupy a stand that is not yours.

3)In EVERY state it is ILLEGAL to threaten another individual with bodily harm.

4) In EVERY state it is ILLEGAL to cut down a tree that does not belong to you.

5) It is stupid to confront an armed trespasser and stupid to confront an armed violator, EVERY TIME. No good can come from an armed argument!

I'm CERTAIN this is NOT an age issue, its an ethics and good judgement question, and neither of these dudes have either.

I can not begin to tell you the amount of dumb SOBs of every age class I've had to deal with on my property whom thought they had some God given right to do whatever they wished on my land. The vast majority of them are under 25 yrs of age.
I chased one little shit with one of those lowered pickups off twice in one morning when he and his buddy thought they had every right to set up their portable treestands in my orchard not to mention parking my field gate shut...the third time I took my tractor filled the bucket at the manure pile and loaded up his pickup bed...hey had the gate not been blocked I would've dumped it on the field.
Yeah I'm old an ornery too :>)

being a highschool soon to be college students i can attest firsthand the amount of irresponsible kids that have little repect for the animals they hunt and they land they do it on. they create a terrible sterotype that i unfortuantly fall into. their poor actions are causing the world to view hunting as distastful and disrespetful and i condoen their actions to the fullest

p.s. Big Daddy keep doing what ur doing punks like them give me and fellow teen hunters a bad name

Ian: you go work your tail off an earning those diplomas knowing that when Thanksgiving break comes you have an invite to my hunting farm to chase big bucks with my sons and I!
Sensible goal oriented gentlemen are always welcome at my Racks 'n Fan camp!

Ian,

It's good to see that you are on the right track.

BTW, don't think that irresponsibility is limited to people your age. There are people who are 80 years old and never have been responsible or "grown up".

Have a good one,

Jim

Jim is right, I know some MEN who hunt with all the wrong the attitude, they have just never gotten it yet

I am 26 and fall into that 20 something group. My parents dont hunt and neither does my best friends parents. We had to hunt together growing up and had to use walkie talkies to comunicate with our parents that all was going well. Limited to hunting on the edge of the big neighborhood with-in walkie talkie distance on small parcels of land. We got permission to hunt these small spots by showing the land owners that we were doing well in school, well in sports and wanted to go to college. It was fancy Howard County MD. Lots of people more woried about their roses then the miles of black top that wove through the once wonderful hardwoods. My buddy and I put up with a lot through school of those that didnt appreciate the outdoors and had no respect for people. We stayed focused on school, sports, family and helping those who we could. We cut grass, split wood, helped harvest wine on the places we got permission to hunt. We even voluntered for a summer at a petting zoo to be able to hunt for 5 days in the fall during winter break and had a blast. We did it with archery gear and I wouldnt trade any of it for the world.

Guess what I am getting at is that there are many people with no respect for what we are able to do. Just because we were young (and still are in the eyes of many) did not change us from having respect for others. I made it through college with a business marking and Accounting degree and worked my way up through the company I work for.

My buddy followed his dreams and went to school for wildlife conservation and forestry and now works in that field.

Both were wrong in their actions. I am the type that would of said good luck to the hunter in the stand and went to another spot. We are suppose to learn from others mistakes. I hunt on a property back home in Howard county still to this day. I am the youngest person that has permission and do the most scouting. Its private property and I am the only one that helps the farmer with his land. I call him on the holidays and on fathers day and wish him and his family the best. I am totally appreciative for the oppertunity to hunt there and I have multiple stands on the property. They all go in before the season. Bright eyes to them and a map left at the house. I built the "hunt" board and refresh it every year. The "elders" on the property use push pins to say which stand they are hunting in and I keep everyone in touch. My parents and grand parents may not of been hunters but they rasied me well enough to treat others with respect and to give back when I can.

A bunch of you hav eposted on this,I'm paraphrasing bc I don't want to scroll back and forth for names...The young hunter is wrong because it wasn't his stand.. Agreed-No one should ever trespass, on anything.
He may not have known better- Agreed. I know several teens who hunt and even one 34 yr old man who have absolutely NO ethics whatsoever. Hunt where they want when they want and just don't care. That 34 yr old sees somewhere he wants to hunt, pulls his truck over on the side of the road, sticks a rag in the windshield and pops the hood and slips over into the woods. Never been caught. One of the nicest people youd ever meet but no ethics. He was never taught, like so many young people today, property lines and permission don't mean anything.

Old guy overeacted-agreed. If it was me(I'm only 19 ,6'0 and 150lbs so I'm not much for intimidation) I would have told the guy it was mine, told him he needed to leave, but if he didn't I would leave and call a CO(we don't have any public land and are the only ones who hunt the farms we do). If he got caught, he got caught, if nothe doesn't. I'm not risking my life to over hunting grounds, it is not THAT important.

ANd to Big Daddy, this whole teen generation is not bad. I know there are a lot of rude, ignorant, stupid, obnoxous, disrespecful kids out there. But there are also a lot of hardworking, honest, considerate, law abiding teens as well. I don't know how many times I have been complimented on my manners and respect throughout my 19 years of life. Everyone who asks me what I'm doing tells me its great and to keep it up because I will be able to do something with my life. I'm working construction full time and going to college full time to get my degree in business to open my own construction business one day. I'm WORKING my way through school. Only missed three classes this past year (my first year) because my grandfather died and I was at funerals and visitations. Finished both semesters with a 4.0, straight A's. Go to church with a bunch of guys, and girls who are doing the same. We don't party, drink ,do drugs, or have sex. We want to make something of ourselves and those things are a one way ticket to nothing but misery. MY girlfriend is graduating high school in a couple weeks with at least a 4.7 (taking 6 AP classes that 5.0 classes) and going to High Point University next year almost on a full scholarship. Never been in trouble and puts school work before everything else because she wants to become something. You can't label an entire generation on the scum in it. If so, and by this I mean no offense to anyone, every single generation of mankind hasn't been worth crap. Look at the Bible times, mideival times, Civil war times, World war times, they're all awful. But those are just bad people that we remember, there are always good ones....

Cody

Hello here im 17 years old and my brother is 24 i think that everybody should no to ask before using and 1 time i went hunting while i dropped my brother off and there was a truck parked just in side are field and it was private property and i pushed there truck into the bush with the tractor out of the way of the thing during bow season so i wasnt to consurend especially in canada. and ya they came out and were like y did u push are truck in the bush i told them i need to get down the road and u are on private property that is posted no hunting and u could if i wanted to get a 500 dollar fine for trust passing ya i caught them one other time on are land with my dad and my dad told them if he catchs them again there may be one hell of a big comotion and ya me and my bro threaten a guy in are treestand on private proberty during bow season we took his brand new 800 dollar bow and told him when he comes and pays us 800 dollars he can have it back so i still have a new bow

Im 26 years old and dont agree with either of the 2 "hunters" in this situation. I also do not agree with the bad generation or 20 somethings comments. I have seen every age group have bad apples and bad ethics. From not trailing does because "it was only a doe" to tresspassing! Confrontations in the woods can turn very ugly just look what happened here in WI a few years ago when 6 young and old hunters lost their lives confronting a tresspasser.All age groups need to show eachother respect we all are out there to enjoy the outdoors. Some of us are blessed enough to have been brought up in it and taught the ropes others are just getting into it by themselves and may need some guidance,not a tree cut down on them!

well put Jake...

Cody

Hey Cody : would your comment of " Money can buy anything can't it Big Daddy..." fall under respect or mature banter to be shared with others??????
Writinf glowing reports of yourself won't earn someone respect...doing the correct hing when no one is looking will.

How many of the posters here on this blog have been privy to the background imfo on this tree cutting issue?
Could it be this older guy had previously allowed this kid to sit in the stand he built? Could it be the older guy had his vehicle damaged while he was sitting that stand earlier that fall? Could it be the younger guy recently broken off an engagement to his daughter and no longer is welcomed into this hunting group?
What I'm getting at is there are many varibles to this scenerio that none of us is privy to.

Regardless of the back story the two involved in this story are both @ fault and acted in a stupid, immature way.

I don't care if the young guy boinked the old guys daughter, wife, dog or next door neighbor. It doesn't give the old guy the right to cut a tree down on public ground or threaten anyone!

On private ground you have every right to dictate who, when and why. On public ground, it's first come, first served to hunting areas. I wouldn't have been in the old guys stand, but I might have hunted the general area if the other hunter wasn't there. After all, it's a "public" resource. Had the old guy showed up, I would have moved on. Not because legally I should have, but because it's not worth the confrontation.

Bottom line, it's deer hunting and there isn't a deer worth dying over. Move on and hunt another day.

Jim

Big Daddy, I'm not sure where you got that "money can buy anything..." quote from but those words are no where in my post...Make sure you know who you are addressing next time because I know from experience, some people on here can get really angry about that. No real problem with me but I do want you to know that I did NOT say that...

Cody

Ok, what do you do when someone puts a stand on your private property? If you take it, they will just take your stand. Leave a note and hope they are responsible and did not know where they were? Sit and wait for an armed trespasser to show up (not alone)?

lance: I would climb up, pull the stand down and lean it up against the tree with a note attached--"you hung this stand on private property, maybe you did not realize that. take your stand and please don't tresspass/hunt on this land anymore, Thanks." You might also put new posted signs up in the area to further give this guy the message. I bet this would resolve it in a peaceful and good way, he would leave and not come back. The last thing you want to do in a case like this is have a confrontation, try to deal with it rationally first.

Hanback,

I got one for you, what would YOU do if you find where a neighboring property has put a stand up on there property, with a thicket to there back, but it is over looking your hardwood flat. They refuse to move it, and insist they are only shooting deer off of their property, but we know whats really going on. Just curious.

Dirty

I have had this happen to me. So long as the stand is on their land and so long as you don't see them shoot a deer on your side, you have to live with it, even though this guy is an a------. One thing I did done in the past is hunt far away from a spot like that, BUT I used the land on my side of the fence where the other guy's stand was watching as a 4-wheeler trail into the area. In effect I patterned it so that I accessed my new stand in front of the guy, putting pressure on his spot and driving the deer deeper onto my place and away from that kuncklehead. After a few weeks he pulled his stand and he's never been back again. I do not really like to screw other people when I hunt, but he really deserved it.

That's a good one. I just draped orange and pink flagging all out in front of the stand, kinda like rolling a house with toilet paper, the doosh still hunted it, but it stopped the deer from moving through there! HA!

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