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March 31, 2008

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One of the coolest bucks I've seen from 2007, way to go Tim!

Hello wow that is a nice buck well i found a buck this year while shed hunting and am wanting to go on a hunting trip so i was wondering how much do u think i could get for a big 3x3 with a droptine that scores about 140 its pretty unique

Wow, that buck looks really familiar!!

Congrats again Tim!!

P.S. Tim's buck is the new No. 9 shotgun Non-Typical for Indiana. This is one of 3 new Top 10 non-typicals by shotgun in Indiana all-time that were taken in 2007. Not ironically, now 6 of the all-time Top 10 shotgun non-typicals All-Time have come since the One Buck Rule has been instituted. The rule came down the pike in 2002.

P.S.S. Hanback, there ain't nuthin' in the water, or the feed. Both components have been here for years and years. It's just that more bucks are surviving into maturity now than at any other time in Indiana's deer hunting history.

For years our bucks were overharvested because 1) we have a long gun season during the rut and 2) we have an equally long muzzleloader season falling during the "secondary rut", and 3)Indiana hunters were allowed to take multiple numbers of bucks.

All this lead to the gross overharvest of bucks prior to now.

One other huge plus is that in the mid 1990s the state liberalized the harvesting of antlerless deer. This actually jump started the "protection" of some bucks prior to the One Buck Rule that started officially in 2002.

Of course, I've said this fifty billion times on this blog and many others over the last couple years. Hopefully, naysayers will start to understand it from here on out.

Indiana has a long way to go. We are still pailing in comparison to most of our neighbors, but we're making strides.

Anybody got a cabin for rent in Indiana, I think I want to move there!

Wow! Nice buck Tim, thats a freak nasty right there. I think Dean is right when he talks about the one buck rule. I wish Michigan (where i live) would go to this rule. There is to many people that will tag out with spikes forks and six pts. You don't see many bucks here that go past 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 years. We do see a few of them from time to time,but think there would be a BIG difference if it went to one buck. Ohio, and Indiana are right next door and look at the bucks that come out of there. There is some good areas in southern lower MI, but lets face it, when's the last time you herd of someone wanting to go to MI. to hunt trophey bucks. I would love to see this happen, think it would be great for the state.

Scott, you've got it right brother. Prior to Indiana's recent management changes, Indiana and Michigan's record books looked almost identical. I mean, they were so similar it was almost scary. Michigan suffers from the same thing we used to. Bucks that are grossly overharvested, and a firearms season that occurs during the peak of the rut. Throw in the fact that Michigan allows more than one, and there you have it. Also, throw in a the gross underharvest of does and you have the formula for destruction.


In Michigan you will have a hard time changing things due to vehemont "traditional" values. Traditionalists will try to stop any type of modern change.

In all honesty Michigan has loads of potential, just like Indiana. If Michigan adopted a firearms season structure like Iowa, etc. they'd slowly turn the corner in mature buck production.

Indiana will slowly pull away from Michigan now because we have more bucks reaching adulthood.

Form a grass roots group and spread the word. Only the people can call for change.

Luke, I'll make you a deal. You can come hunt with me in Indiana, for a swap Montana hunt. Deal?

You have my e-mail buddy. LOL!

Dean, you definently hit all the points there. A one buck rule would help for sure but its just a piece of it. Your right on with the rest of it. Our rifle/shotgun season is about 2-weeks and at peak rut, one week later starts the 2-3 week muzzeloader season. Not much of a chance for promising bucks to make it threw that. Followed up by all the button bucks that i hear of that get taken out by people filling there doe tags. We do what we can in our area to help, but there needs to be some major changes.

Congrats on a fine Indiana buck Tim!

As Dean stated, Indiana started removing the pressure from the buck herd when doe permits were liberalized (before the obr came into effect). By allowing more does to be killed, Indiana has changed the herd structure and I would imagine (Indiana doesn't release herd number estimates) there are lower deer densities in many areas now as well. The obr has proven to be the tool to push Indiana hunters to kill more does and it obviously is working.

If you are only going to allow one buck to be killed per season per hunter, then I say let the majority of hunters have a good opportunity to kill a deer in November. That's why we hunt.

Kentucky and Minnesota are one buck rule states and they both have gun seasons earlier than Indiana does (and both states continue to produce many high scoring, mature bucks) so I don't see why people think a gun season during November will automatically decimate the mature buck herd (in a obr state).

Many cite Iowa and Illinois as models for deer management, BUT both allow 2 bucks per hunter (one with bow/one with gun) and that short season for gun is more easily tolerated by hunters. Ohio allows only one buck per season and has a short gun season and yes they have plenty of trophy opportunities. But............

The problem with a short gun season is, many times adequate does aren't taken and you end up with the herd getting out of hand again (like recent articles say Illinois and Ohio's herds are). Iowa had bad weather during their 10 days of shotgun season this year and had to extend gun hunting to kill more does.

Sure, you could shorten the gun season to one weekend a year for gun and one weekend a year for muzzleloader (one the first weekend of December and one the last weekend of December) and you would save tons of bucks. But.....people tend to forget that the DNR needs to try and keep the herd @ a certain level and they need to provide good hunting opportunities to ALL hunters. Not everyone can bow hunt (or wants to) so how is it fair to limit their hunting to a few days a year (after the rut)and allow bowhunters to hunt for three months (and during the entire rut)?

Indiana's dnr obviously sees it this way and has opted to keep the gun seasons and the muzzleloader seasons as is (at least for now).

The end result are the healthy, mature bucks and does that you are starting to see come out of Indiana more and more. I would say Indiana's dnr and hunters are doing a pretty good job and while you might disagree with me, it's hard to argue with the photos.

Jim


Dean P.S. stands for Post Script, so you should use P.P.S. not P.S.S. because Post Script Script sounds a bit funny.

Lance, Thanks Thanks!!

scott you think button buck harvest is bad by you becuase of earn a buck if it didn't have antlers you bet it dropped openin day IT was like WOrld WAr Three those yearling never stood a chance especially with all the big does killed during bow season they were runnign around getting shot to shreads out of the 14 deer taken by the 5 hunting groups in my area 4 where bucks 3 where does and 7 were yearling of which 6 were buck fawns

Indiana is heading for some banner years with the One Buck Rule being in place for a few years now. We still lag behind in proper management like Ohio has, but it is a start! Baby steps toward more mature bucks...

Eric Williams quote:We still lag behind in proper management like Ohio


Eric,

You might want to check out this article from the columbus dispatch about ohio deer numbers. Apparently it isn't all big bucks and roses there.....

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/02/07/2008-09_deer_regs.ART_ART_02-07-08_B1_GT99IS2.html?sid=101

It's an interesting read.

Jim

It's an article that I doubt is subjective. I think most of the hunters there would tell you there is nothing wrong with the herd in most areas. Good try, though.

Not subjective?

Here's a quote from the article:
Ohio's deer herd swelled to an estimated 675,000 last summer, and state officials say that's enough.

"No later than two years from now, we plan on effectively stopping the growth of the deer population," said Dave Risley, executive administrator of wildlife management and research for the Ohio Division of Wildlife.

In fact, the goal is to reduce the herd considerably.

"We're going to come up with a new (population) target level," Risley said. "It probably isn't going to be 250,000. That's not realistic. But it definitely won't be 700,000."


The executive director of Fish and Wildlife says the state needs to lower the herd "considerably", but the article isn't subjective?

Ok..........

Have a nice day........

probably should have stated "not objective", anyhow, point taken, sounds like Ohio has problems in some areas. Something Indiana could improve on.

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