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January 30, 2008

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we are supposed to shot feral pigs till they stop moving up here in wiscosnin if we see any after seeing the damage they can do to deer hunting and habitiat i'd put an extra one in em just in case

Ian, it is true that real feral hogs are getting out of control in many states, most game departments want us to kill em all.

This whole thing reeked from the first time I read it on the old blog.

If you remember, I questioned not only the "hunt" but the ability of a kid to handle a smith & wesson model 500. Most men can't handle that revolver. I still contend that kid couldn't have shot that revolver as many times as reported (if @ all).

It's ridiculous that a father would put his son in a situation like this.

This is what penned hunts and "hornography" bring to hunting. Bad press, legal problems and more fuel for the "anti's".

Because of this lust for killing "giant" bucks, pigs, bears etc, people are willing to hunt in a pen (remember cubby the bear that the country singer killed) and pay huge amounts of money to put an animal on the wall.

It's not about the size of the animal or the antlers. It's supposed to be about fair chase and the experience. It's time more people remembered that and quit letting greed and stupidty get in the way.

Jim

They sure aint living to high on the hog anymore! Oink Oink R.I.P. Fred

It's too bad that these "adults" put this kid through this. I hope they get whatever is coming to them.

A combination of the lust for "trophy" animals, and the instant notoriety the internet can produce brought this kid into the dilemma he faces today.
Throw in some incredibly irresponsible adults, and now you have a Grand Jury appearance-not the type notoriety anyone involved envisioned.
It`s sad for the kid on every level.

Jim: I wonder how your opinion of high fence hunting would change if someone offered to give you a free trip (valued @ $10K) an transportation to one of those high fence elk hunting operations up in Sask. so they could film it for TOC?
To be frank, if you could laugh them off professing you're against such slaughter, you're a better man then me ( an most others).

"Because of this lust for killing "giant" bucks, pigs, bears etc, people are willing to hunt in a pen" quote by Jim. I believe wholeheartedly that this lust comes from watching all the hunting shows and reading the magazines and all the publicity people can get over the internet when they do kill a giant. We watch people who seem to be just like us everyday on hunting shows shoot world class deer everytime they step into the woods. We read articles everyday about someone on the internet who had bagged potentially a new world record(Thanks Mike!! lol) and we read article after article in all of our hutning magazines that have stories of twelve yeard olds shooting 250" inch deer for their first kill. We see this and say "I wan't one like that!" And chances are, many of us hunt in areas that can produce bucks that would definitely make B&C. I've been lucky enough to see two drop tine giants(one was absolutely a freak-nasty make ya slap your momma kinda buck and the other was a giant typical frame with doubles, about 8 inches on the right)all within 10 miles of where we hunt. The freak was actually almost at my house and the other was 80 yds from my treestand but I didn't have a clean ethical shot so I didnt take it. I passed up what was, in my mind, a giant 10 pointer one day for the same reason. I was actually lucky enough to take not one, but two shots at what I think was a GIANT 8 pt with my bow, sent one thorugh both lungs at about 30 yds, never found the deer. He ran toward s a road and we lost the trail their so I kind of feel like someone stopped and picked him up. But with the combination of watching hunting shows and seeing several monter bucks and actually shooting at a giant have kind of gotten me caught up in "hornography". I would never hunt a pen to satisfy my needs but I have developed a desire to kill nothing but big bucks, especially one with a drop and Mike, this site just adds to that!! I kind of came back to reality this season and shot the two smallest bucks of my life (the first was crippled so it gace me an excuse lol). I was just as proud of both of those as I was of the big 8 I got mounted a couple yeras ago. In my short seven years of hunting I had lost sight of why I was really hunting, but shooting those two bucks this year helped me to remember. It's not about the size of the deer so much as it is the size of the hunt. Being able to share it and enjoy with those you hunt with and be in the most beautiful part of what God created and making a clean, ethical, quick kill on what you're hunting is what it all about. I think we all need to take a look at why were hunting and try to take a step back in time to when we shot our first buck and this season, place that kind of excitement back in to youre hunt by hunting not so much for the deer, but the hunt itself.
Cody

I've hunted for 40+ years and I think what you'll, like most of us have is after a few 150"+ bucks adorn your garage wall it really isn't about getting a deer at all.

oops!...you'll find...

This is very sad for the boy involved. I hope the adults get handed every penalty that is involved by law.

I'm not an attorney but my father is. Just think about this for a second...what law was broken? The boy's father arranges for an unwanted hog to be placed inside a shooting preserve, (correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the original story that the hog was in their or a neighbor's yard when killed?), and his son "hunts " the hog... Is the fact that it took several shots to kill the hog a crime??? I've shot a moose with 4 180gr/300WM in the vitals before he dropped and have several 2 shot kills on elk .

Big Daddy,

You know you are doing the right thing when no one is looking and you still do what is expected of you. That's the lesson I've taught to my kids and what kind of person would I be to violate it?

Sometimes whats legal just doesn't sit well with your morals. Killing this pig was anything but hunting.

Jim

I don't think this "hunt" should be glorified or promoted, but i don't think
some of our politicians should be promoted either and we don't see them taken to court
for being stupid! i don't see what was illegal, definetly not honest or smart, but
not illegal. we all consume pork that had its throat cut at the locker plant and they are not being persued for legal matters. Let's just call this a slaughter by uneducated people that was promoted by the press. it was not a hunt! if they spun this as one then it is false advertising and that goes unchecked everyday in our society!
The fact that tax money will be spent to sort this out in court is the real sad part.
unfortunatley being stupid is not illegal in this country

If any of you haven't read the whole story, you need to. Click the link Mike gave in his blog. Very in-depth.

Big Daddy-

I promise you I`d laugh off the free "hunt" in the play-pen. It tells a lot about a man by what he`ll do for money, (or for "free").
And unlike some, the thought of being filmed hunting in a play-pen would make a nauseating venture even more distasteful with the realization it was being captured for all time. Uggghhh.

Greg, love the response man. I don't think I would take that "free" sluaghter trip if it was offered because like I posted a dozen times on the "MASS" blog I don't agree with it at all. It's said that everyman has his price but doing something I don't agree with and have been vocal about so many times, there is no way I owuld do because of the hipocracy. And with it filmed, there is no way to deny it. The only thing that would make me even consider going on the AEP Slaughter trip would be the chance at shooting a big bull elk. I've wanted to go elk hunting for as long as I can remember and would do almost anything to go on an elk trip. I've actually thought about it, when I decide to propose to whoever that woman may be, she gets a several thousand dollar ring, I think I should get a several thousand dollar hunting trip!! Pretty wishful thinking huh? :)

I would venture to say that many hunters sometime in their life have made poor shots that resulted in a deer or other game going off and dying a slow death. We see it all the time, even on the TV hunting shows; “I don’t feel that I made a perfect shot, I am going to back out and wait 3 hours or even overnight to come back.” What do you think that animal is doing? It is dying a slow death while the hunter is doing nothing to put it out of its suffering. Yes, I agree that this leaves the best chances for recovery, and it is even a practice that I use, but the ultimately the hunter is allowing the animal to suffer. However, that is not my point; my point is that even in fair chase hunts, the sad fact is animals do not always die swiftly. It is not illegal. Yes, it took the boy 5 shots, while chasing down this animal. Would there be less scrutinizing had he backed out after the first shot and tracked it a few hours later? I agree with all that has been said about it not being “hunting” and definitely not fair chase, but it seems asinine to take up taxpayers dollars with this in court. Nothing illegal was done, it is purely a moral issue taken to the judicial level.

I think setting up poor pet Fred to be assinated was pretty cruel and verry illegal for the men that arranged it.I come from a long line of swine hunters (catchers mainley) and this boils my blood! Poor Fred was a pet dangit!! Oink Oink

Cody " the only thing that would make me ...is a chance to shoot a big bull elk...."
Guess what buckeroo that is exactly what draws so many to it.Tired of not getting drawn for a tag,tired of raghorns from public land,tired of dropping several $K to go to a far off state for a guided hunt, tired of being raped for non resident tag fees to hunt on land they partially own (BLM),etc. etc.
Everyone has the right to choose for themselves. Just the same as everyone in America has the right to voice their opinion on the topic...like it or not neither yours or mine has anymore validity to it than the others.

Speakng of Fred...I wonder how big those pork chops were. I'll bet they looked like sirlion steaks...yummmmmmmmm

Hey if any body had any brains they probably could have made more money just by putting that giant missing link (ALIVE) in a traveling show or exibit! You just dont see something like that everyday.

won't work, tried it with my mother-in-law...ACLU had a field day with it!

Now thats funny! Good one Big D.

Brett good point about hunters backing out and letting a deer suffer. I've done that once and given a couple an hour or so. THe worst hutning experience I ever had though was two years ago during the late muzzeloding season. Shot a real pretty 6pt about 75 yds and hit him in the spine. He was still rollin around so I climbed down the stand as quick as I could to go cut his throat so I wouldn't have to shoot him again. Got up to him and he was using his front legs to try and crawl away and when I tried to get in to cut his throat he would go to swingin his head and kickin with his front legs at me so I couldn't get tp him. Took several steps back and put another .50 cal bullet through his shoulder and blew lungs and some heart out of the other side of him(I would have shot him in the head but the way he was moving I didn't want to shoot his rack or make a poor shot) so that should have killed him. Gave him a minute and he was still breathing. Cut his throat THREE times and he bled and he bled and he bled and he bled and he just kep breathing. I couldn't stand it anymore and was almost to the point of tears and had to wlak off bc I couldn't stand to look at him anymore. 20 minutes later went back and he had died. THat single experience almost ruinedn hunting for me and I felt bad for a long time letting the deer suffer like that but I still feel like I did everything I could ethically do to kill him quickly, he just wouldn't die. My uncle had to drown a small buck of my cousins one night in a creek because he had been shot a couple of times and had his throat cut I think twice and wouldn't die so he held the deer head in the creek until he died. Sometimes a deer, or any animal for that fact, just has a will to live and there ain't much you can do tokill them. NOw that I've rambled and haven't gone anywhere, the adults on that hutn, if youll call it that, should have stepped in and finished the pig off. However, I don't blame the kid for anything, it was a big gun that may have been hard for him to handle but Daddy probably told him to use it. After the first shot he was probably nervous and upset and excited all the same and wasn't able to make the killing shot but you also have to think, that pig was a PIG of a pig and it may not have wanted to die and as long as the people were chasing he was going to keep going. Don't agree with the way the hunt was set up but I don't blame the kid at all for the way he did, blame the adults for not stepping in and finishing him off, much like my uncle did for my 13 year old cousin who didn't know what to do with that little buck.

For those who are interested in the continuing saga, here's an update on the MONSTER PIG case:

"In January, a Clay County grand jury was to decide if the Monster Pig hunters committed animal cruelty. The public never heard that the District Attorney who was to prosecute the case suddenly canceled .

Now in April, another surprise. National Geographic UK film crew is in Alabama filming "Anatomy of a Hoax" about the monster hog killing. With all the unexpected twists and turns in this case, what else should the public know? Fred the pig may be dead but the consequences of his killing continue.

This monster pig case is not about hunting or hunters in general. It is isolated to the actions of only 3 men. The laws should have been able to deal with these three men, yet has not.

Hunters' silence regarding this incident may appear to the public, who are mostly non hunters, as condoning the manner in which Fred was slaughtered.

With enforcement, the issue goes away. It then becomes only 3 men that did this wrong---not an entire hunting culture.

For all of the above reasons, I believe hunters should lead the charge on recommending enforcement and defining right from wrong.

Another way of thinking about this case is its ability to educate the public about what ethical hunting traditions are about.

I would have never taken my son out to kill his first deer without my firm belief in the healthy and wholesome values such an experience brings to a young man or woman in one's charge.

These men have twisted this fine tradition into something unreal,ugly and pornographic. I personally will not stand for this case to represent --or hijack--the traditions I have endorsed, personally
participated in and exposed my children to."

Rhonda Roland Shearer, StinkyJournalism.com

For the rest of the story, check out:
Alabama's Monster Pig Hoax, One Year Later
http://www.stinkyjournalism.org/latest-journalism-news-updates-129.php

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